EP: Why 250 is Better than 50 For Casual Writers

[Kiriko Tenshi]

/250=1EP vs /50=1EP.

I've heard that people are suggesting that /50 is better for "casual writers". I.e those who write less words per month than others. Without going into detailed explanation: here's the math that proves the opposite is true.

Lets say we have two writers: Bob and Ann. Ann writes way more than Bob. Lets say every month Ann writes 5,000 words. Bob writes 1,000 words. When divided by /50, bob gains a mere 50 points whereas Ann gains 100. And in our RPG stats are based on 10s when compared in battle, so, assuming both players invest their stats in a comparable skill (lets say Speed and they are comparing it in, lets say, a foot race), Ann is getting 5 ranks higher than Bob every month they invest in that skill.

Now if we divide by 250, Bob gets 4 points a month and Ann gets 20. Ann is only getting 1.6 ranks higher--not a whole 5 ranks higher--every month.

Furthermore, the site has a base EP. Dividing by a larger number (250) means that EP gained via writing will offset EP gained via bonus points from rank ups rather than what a player can spam out in any period of time. A lower EP per word gain means quality of writing becomes paramount as rankups are judged by quality and not quantanty.

[Sakuya Darkholme]

...I don't see how that was supposed to explain why its better to anyone.

250 words for one fucking EP is ridiculous. People will come, read that, and go "wow, fuck this. 250 words for one little point?" and hop off to BG. Not only that, but those that do stay and want more EP are going to make fluff-tastic posts that will make us want to gauge our eyes out. I don't see how that promotes better posts by any means. If someone is a good poster, EP rewards won't effect the quality of their posts. I'm not a person who really gives a damn about stats, frankly, but seeing that makes me go "-__- srsly?"

I can understand wanting to raise the amount of words per EP- to a REASONABLE number. I could support that. But 250? Thats just ass raping everyone, in my opinion.


Forgive my lack of couth. Hungry Cho= very grouchy Cho.

[Ren Tenshi]

Lol...

I have one thing to say.

Chop off a Zero on all of BG's stat and GP and what not crap, and you get the exact same thing. The reality of it, is that you get the same out of your writing, you just don't realize it because the numbers aren't bigger. Because they don't need to be bigger. Realistically, ANYONE writing a post should be getting 250 words in a single post, 250 words is not a lot. Compared to someone coming in and writing a string of 50 word posts that make people rage all over the place because they won't write more even when they could, I'd say this system is actually more appropriately in line. The numbers make no difference, its like saying if we wanted to we could add a zero to all the EP amounts, it would all end up being the same the numbers would just be bigger.

EP -

1 EP - 10 Ep - 250 Words

1 SP Costs 10 EP at 1-100
1 SP costs 20 EP at 101-200
1 SP costs 30 EP at 201-300

Etc... Same exact system, a zero was knocked off, which makes the stats realistically easier to manage, which I like WAAY better. I don't want to spend 2 hours every week figuring out what my new stats are because I have to work with figuring out all the formulas, with my 2,000 EP or whatever.

Sakuya, clearly you didn't see the entirety of the new system, because most of the stuff still costs the same when compared to the GP system. Before it was like 15 GP for 1 SP at like 200 SP, now its 3. At 50 words per 1 GP that would be 750 words for 1 SP. Where as at 250 words per 1 EP that would be GASP 750 words for 1 SP.

OMG they are the SAME!

[Kiriko Tenshi]

More points per word actually promotes fluff considerably more as stats aren't based on any core number. Why? Because each word of fluff is worth less. If they don't understand, we can explain it to them here. Plus if they want to go to BG, then maybe they are more suited for the environment the WC/50 cost has promoted on that site. But when a word is only worth 1/250 points, there's much less reason to chug out thousands of useless words in a post then when its only worth 1/50th of a point.

And I can cite over six years of roleplaying experience in word-to-point based systems. Isshin had considerably more fluff; literally tens of thousands of words PER POST in some cases (usually in the opening post) with 1,000 words being the average length of the captain's posts over there. Not because they were better writers. Our best writers on the site barely even got Shi-Kai level before they quit in a huff--watching people with 80,000 reiatsu against their 1,000 with posts full of typos with characters as shallow as a puddle. And yeah, in our system those characters wouldn't become captains because their writing sucks. But, unfortunately, a higher word count-to-point ratio skews this: it ensures anyone can get captain level even if their writing sucks and, in a story where power=leadership, they could easily make their own faction or ursurp an existing one just by power-writing. Even if it doesn't make sense for the character to do so.

That being said, I'd rather that words carry over multiple posts in this RPG. I don't like having to word count each individual post and would rather just add it all up at the end.

EDIT: Oh and Rye, I know Cho's post was a little insensitive but she explained to me over AIM and in the end of her post that she hasn't eaten yet...

[Sakuya Darkholme]

The whole point of that post is that newbies are going to come in and be disgruntled by the number. We're still a new site and need people. Saying "If you don't like it then go to BG" isn't going to make people want to stay here.

[Kiriko Tenshi]

True. But I'm hoping the 250 will be a pull to this site. Right now we have very little to offer to someone with no history at either site other then 'we are newer and smaller". This is one of the reasons I prefer Bexile over BGotei. Well this and the people who moved over...of course.

You forget that I'm basically a newb to this site. Don't let the moderator status mislead you; I just joined BGotei like a month and a half ago. I'm just the graphic monkey and head chat moderator. And if I had to choose, I'd be less discouraged by a bigger conversion number and seeing older members with smaller amounts. "Wow, I'm only 500 stat points away from my captain, once you account for rank up bonus" is a lot more encouraging to me than "I'm 2,500 stat points away..."

[Yoshino]

Ren, your numbers are slightly off, but your point is decent. See the conversion rate and doublecheck your math.

Reiatsu | BG EP costs | BE EP costs
1-100 | 1 each | 1 each
1-150 | 2 each | 2 each
151-200| 3 each | 2 each
201-250 | 4 each | 3 each
251-300 | 5 each | 3 each

As you can see, BE is actually somewhat cheaper in the long run, which is counter-balanced by the more difficult EP (at BG one could aquire an EP one 150 word post and one 100 word post, while BE requires a 250 word post.)

I'll confess I have occasionally had posts under 250, but it's not a massive requirement (there are sites that require 500 or more out there >.<)

My one slight disappointment, is that it's EP per post, as opposed to EP per thread. This would lessen the 'overlap' effect that I imagine is bothering some people. (400 words 'wasting' 150, for example.) If it were adjusted to per thread as opposed to per post, there would be less incentive to stuff fluff into a post to pad it to the next EP increment for the post, if that makes sense.

[Kiriko Tenshi]

I agree that EP should count per thread and not per post.

[Izumi Tenshi]

I don't mind if its 250 or 50 WpP. However I do want us to be marketed more towards casual writers since lets face it there are more casual RPers out there than not, I'm a casual writer myself for instance. Also I HATE dealing with eltism. I hate people who think they are better than someone just because they are a tiny bit "gifted"(note gifted is not a good thing especially if you're a prick about it). So if making the EP award per thread instead of per post is better then I would like to see us implement it. My only question though is how would we make it work?

[Rayne Hughes]

Actually, I'm going to make my very first opinionation here, even though I'm not quite approved yet. Here's the deal. I agree wholeheartedly with the per thread rather than per post method. I've had times that I've been 10 to 20 words away from the next marker, but had NO way to get them without fluffing. I love writing with detail, and not doing so just makes me want to hurl. I've been known to go back and edit posts three pages back on a topic because I didn't put detail in.

That being said as for the number of words per POINT? I don't particularly care. I think that the 250 per point would promote better posts, but then you'll have the people that have frequent writer's block (like me) not posting half the time because they can't even BREAK 250.

So yeah.... that's MY opinion. But then I'm a lot more lax on things than most other people I know that have run a site.

[Kiriko Tenshi]

If we let people carry over their word totals until the end of a threat there'd be no need for post minimums other than as a quality standard.

That being said, I've done really good posts that are just a few words. Usually during intense dialogue exchanges, though, where I feel a few hundred words about the character's emotions etc...etc... detract from the significance of the words being said (See: "Hakuren").

So I'd be fine with someone getting 3 points from two 375 word posts...

[Yoshino]

My only question though is how would we make it work?

Post 1 (insert post content)

OOC: 350 words

Post 2 (insert post content)

OOC: 250 words, 600 total

Post 3 (insert post content)

OOC: 400 words, 1,000 total


EP Claiming post:

(insert link to thread's third post by the specific individual) 1,000 words, claiming 4 EP

[Kenshou Ine]

I like the idea of claiming the entire thread vs. by post. Personally I find myself adding in a bit sometimes if I'm withing a 20-30 words of an extra EP point. Also just making a minimum of 250 words would fix this, as people will be posting enough, but it will feel more fluid at times.

[Izumi Tenshi]

Well I do not want to apply a minimum word count at all. That's just too elitist. I'm fine with claiming the total at the end of the thread. It'll be easier for some people to claim EP in that case and maybe discourage people stalling their posts.

[Yoshino]

Well, a 100 word minimum could be beneficial, pushing the new kids that might be coming from chat RP's or Gaia to actually put some effort into their posts. (Making it a guideline as opposed to a hard and fast rule could be good though, it would allow for tiny post showstoppers like Kiriko mentioned.)

[Miki Tenshi]

The actual amount is rather inconsequential. The purpose of the Higher Word count is to stretch the user to make more quality posts. If you look at writing habits the highest quality short is anywhere from 280 - 600 words. The 250 word spread maintains that balance and makes it to where people, who write the next 25 just to bump it into the next 50 word tier, focus on actual quality over word count.

I have done so many essays and different professional type documents to know that the best format for quality with content is inside the 250 word count. Personally this doesn't have to be law and if you guys choose to lower it I am fine with that, but I don't want this 10 EP = 1 Stat Point thing. I like the rather straight forward approach of 1EP = 1 SP for the first 100SP, 2Ep for the next 100, and 3EP for 200-300SP.

Again this is my opinion and whatever you guys choose to do I will support.

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